tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC May 16, 2014 12:00am-1:01am PDT
how we are strengthened by what was done that day. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. thousands of fast food workers walked off the job to protest for higher wages. in dozens of cities from los angeles to atlanta to new york city people took to the streets to fight for 15. they did the same thing in chicago and new orleans. >> it's not enough money to be working for $8 an hour. that's why i'm here again if it has to be twice, third time, five times i'm going to be here. >> we want common respect and the ability to unionize without anything coming back to harm us
and our families. >> we have to make the difference. we have to change. we have to do something so they listen to us. >> this time it's not just in the united states. protestors in 33 countries from south korea rallied at a time when 44% of the jobs created in the last four years are low wage jobs. the fight for $15 an hour has managed to put inequality and the minimum wage front and center in the national debate. the sustained protests have been able to do for the left what the tea party has been successful in doing on the right, which is to push the boundaries on an issue and drag the politics behind it. when the fight kicked off 18 months ago, it was a very small grassroots movement. today it has entirely changed the politics of the country. the president suggested raising minimum wage in his state of the union.
new jersey has voted to raise their state's minimum wage to $8.25 and vermont is on track to have the highest in the nation at $10.50 an hour. that's just to name a few. meanwhile the center of the debate has moved. >> there are some basic things that we should be for. one of them is reasonable increases from time to time in the minimum wage. >> i for instance as you know part company with many of the conservatives in my party on the issue of minimum wage. i think we ought to raise it. >> let's not make the argument that we're for the blue collar guy but against a minimum wage increase. >> we should note all those republicans are people without power in the current gop. the people who are in power have been left behind as public opinion moves in the direction of those strikers that you saw today. >> do you believe in the minimum wage?
>> when you look at raising it, all of the studies show that if you raise it, you get more unemployment. >> if you raise the minimum wage, the inevitable effect will be, number one, young people will lose their jobs or not be able to get their first jobs. unemployment among young people will go up. >> i don't think a minimum wage law works. >> it's not just those vying for the republican presidential nomination. it's almost the entire republican class of 2014. in north carolina where 61% of the population supports raising the minimum wage, republican senate candidate tom tillis came out against a federal minimum wage hike saying minimum wage decisions need to be made by the state, the preferred dodge of candidates these days. he refused to say whether or not he supported a state minimum wage hike. it's up to states rather than the federal government. that's a nicer way of saying you don't believe in it.
there's a reason why republicans aren't running on that belief, because the american people are against them and they know it. joining me new york state attorney general democrat eric snyderman. his office is looking into wage violations in the state's fast food industry. attorney general, you've been opening this investigate that centers on the lack of power that these workers have. one symptom of that is the wages that they are paid. the other symptom is that even the wages that they should be paid are often not paid. >> it's no coincidence that we've been able to make these cases because workers are coming forward where they were reluctant to before. at the same time they're raising their voices and organizing. this is part of the same pattern. we can't do anything in law enforcement if people don't report crimes to us. in the last few months we've gotten probably 3,000 workers wages from employers who were beating them out of $7.25 an hour and $8 an hour. most employers would like to pay their workers a decent minimum
wage. a living wage. they are undercut by bottom feeders. if you don't raise the minimum wage and you don't have good enforcement, that's something we're seeing all over the state of new york. >> when you say 3,000 workers, what is happening such that they're not getting the money they're due. we're not talking about raising it but the fact that there's an epidemic in this country which i have seen as a reporter face to face of low wage workers being stiffed out of paychecks and out of their money. >> we've gotten back wages from mcdonald's workers, dominos workers, car wash workers. they've been helped by the sciu. and they have come forward to raise complaints. when they raise complaints we've actually put some of these employers in jail. these guys will not pay the minimum wage. they sometimes make the workers stand around and only clock in when the store is busy and clock out when they're not.
>> these are people on the job who are being told by their bosses, take your punch card, when the store is busy clock in, we'll pay you for that and when the store is not, clock out, which is illegal. >> again, it's important to understand why raising minimum wage is important. there are always employers who will try to pay less and do less. it's the usual evasion of regulations. it's not just bad for the workers but for the good businesses that want to do the right thing. we have seen folks who wouldn't pay for laundry allowance, make people pay tipped wages when they're not in a tip-type job. one of the dominos franchises tried to retaliate and fire people. we got them their jobs back within a couple of days. wage theft is like car theft. it's like any other kind of theft and we have to treat it that way.
>> but it isn't like car theft and the example you give of the dominos workers was the exception rather than the rule of what happens when people try to step forward. often they are retaliated against and there is no law enforcement. >> in new york we have a strong anti-retaliation statute. your point is correct. ideally this should be done at the federal level. it's not something that should be left to the states. the enforcement should be done at the federal level. the labor secretary is a great guy but they just can't get things done in washington and the minimum wage bill was killed even in the senate which the democrats control much less the house. it's clear we're going to have to take action at the state level. the state with the highest state minimum wage, washington, has the fastest rate of job growth. you're listening to these guys and their position on economics is as credible as their position on climate change. this is not a position any response, honest economist would take. it's not true that minimum wage
increases affect job growth. >> i want to come back to what you said in the beginning. do you actually think that this movement, this fight for 15 movement, the organizing we've seen around that, has emboldened people to come forward with complaints? >> i know that. we have had folks in our office, people giving information. again, in a couple of cases there was a taco factory where we locked up the employer. there was a movie theatre cleaning company, we locked up the employer. we can bring criminal cases, get people their wages back. this is true in a lot of states. when people find their voice to organize, they also find their voice to report. >> attorney general eric snyderman. thank you. joining me a staff attorney for the law enforcement project. it's great to have you back. >> great to be here. >> how much progress has been made? i want to play out two parallel facts. one is that these movements have grown. they've moved public opinion. we've seen minimum wage raised in states. we've seen the highest minimum wage in a city being negotiated in seattle.
at the same time these folks that we're seeing that are working at mcdonald's or taco bell are no closer to having unions or the protections or having their raise waged by their employer than they were 18 months ago. >> 18 months ago there was one strike in now. now it's 150 strikes. workers have seen small victories. there have been workers that have won some small raises and that has spurred further action and further emboldenment to take more steps. on the policy front, the fact that seattle is poised to enact a $15 minimum wage, that's a direct result of the last 18 months. that figure didn't come out of nowhere. so i think the fact that the strikes are catching fire, that people now know that contrary to industry's claims, these are not teens, these are adults that are trying to support families, 70% of the work force are adults.
and also the focus on what in the meantime ceos are racking in in terms of compensation. even as the average wage is $9 an hour, ceos are making the money. >> there's such an imbalance between corporate power and worker power. i read a great piece today which was written by a mcdonald's worker in denmark who said i make $21 an hour and you should, too. i work for mcdonald's in denmark where an agreement between our union and the company guarantees that workers older than 18 are making $21 an hour. to anyone who says that fast food isn't a good job i would argue that my isn't bad. >> it shows that it's not just about raising minimum wage because that's just the floor. it's clear that $7.25 is way too
low and we've seen seven states take action to raise the minimum wage, but there has to be more than raising the minimum wage. we've seen over decades what happens when workers organize and build collective power and are able to negotiate directly with their employer. in this case employers that are racking in tremendous amount of profit and can certainly afford to pay a lot higher than the minimum wage. >> are you surprised by how much this has gained traction? organizing is hard work. my dad is an organizer, my brother is an organizer. it's hard to get people to speak out against their bosses anywhere. are you surprised by how well it's gone? >> i'm not surprised. i mean, i am heartened. i think it's a little different. i'm not surprised because people are really angry. they're seeing an economy where everybody says that the recovery is happening but it's not happening for them. they're working harder and harder and not getting raises. you've seen interviews with workers that have gotten a 50 cent raise in ten years.
>> the american worker in toto hasn't gotten a raise for a long time, not just fast food workers. >> yes. wages for the bottom 60% of our work force are stagnated or declined. if you are a middle income worker you're still struggling to get ahead so you can absolutely identify with these issues. >> do you think it's a wedge issue in politics? >> absolutely. the you said in your intro the broad majority of the american public support raising the minimum wage. specifically, highlighting the concern that they have of the consequence of their counterparts in congress who are blocking any meaningful increase in the minimum wage because they know. they see the trends that we're seeing, the polling. >> they understand that people are frustrated and angry. >> exactly.
>> they understand that their support for precisely what we're seeing today in cities across the country and cities across the world. always a pleasure having you. former massachusetts senator scott brown who is running for senate in his new home in new hampshire just handed his democratic opponent material for the best campaign ever. i'll tell you what he did next. i had to do something. i saw my doctor. a blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. we talked about axiron the only underarm low t treatment that can restore t levels to normal in about two weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant, and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include
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>> the nra has an image problem so they create a new online network for shows like this. >> how is it possible for me to walk out of a gun store with a $5,000 rifle in a cardboard box. >> no, you didn't? >> yes, i did. >> literally in a cardboard box? >> yes. and it pissed me off. i want a nice box, not the build-a-bear type box. >> i get lululemon pants in a better box than that. >> it's such a hot mess. you can't look away. we'll talk about why the nra has to rebrand itself ahead.
>> what are you proudest of in terms of legislative achievement for the people of the state of massachusetts? >> doing exactly what i said i would do which is to be that independent voter and thinker. i'm the most if not the totally most in the entire united states senate and i think that's very important because there are plenty of ideologues, but very few problem solvers. >> in the terminal phase of scott brown's short senate career he was building himself as a bipartisan consensus maker.
he has taken up that mantle once again which is why it looks really, really bad. he got caught red-handed blowing up an uncontroversial, sensible, bipartisan piece of legislation for the petty political reason he did not want his political opponent to get any credit that she could tout during the campaign. there was a bill that was widely supported in both the house and senate. even senate minority leader mitch mcconnell admitted it, saying it does enjoy bipartisan support. supporters saying the legislation was expected to create jobs and save energy costs. but it ended up being filibustered with help from scott brown. "huffington post" reports that brown, quote, called republican senate leadership to urge them to make sure that shaheen-portman didn't pass so as not to give shaheen something
to run on. if scott brown thought the shaheen ads were going to be bad, wait until he sees the ads about him blowing it up for the pettiest of political reasons. joining me is a member of the department of public works and natural resources. can you tell me about this legislation that was destroyed in it struck me as not a huge deal but sensible and good and would save energy and money. >> chris, you're absolutely right. this was a very modest bill. this bill was supported by the u.s. chamber of commerce, not noted to be radical environmentalists and other business groups. but it was an important bill because everybody understands that the best way to save energy is through energy efficiency and weatherization. as you indicated, what this bill would do is save people substantial sums of money on their fuel bills, because when
you weatherize a home you use less energy. it would also create a significant number of jobs, almost 200,000 jobs, and further, it would cut greenhouse gas emissions. sounds to me like a win/win/win situation. but the republican party has become such an obstructionist party, so determined to not let anything significant happen, so determined not to give senator shaheen a victory despite the jobs being created and the energy saved that they killed the bill. >> scott brown calls around, republicans bill buster and the new hampshire gop says senator shaheen has called the bill her defining legislation but she doesn't have a single bill to run on as she seeks re-election. this was a political hit job, nothing more and nothing less. >> hey chris, welcome to my world.
that is what goes on here every single day. >> but this is precisely the thing, senator, this is precisely the thing that voters say they hate. why can't you guys come to some consensus. here it is. this is why you can't, because it is to the political advantage of certain people to destroy rather than build. >> it goes on and on and on. a few months ago i presented a veterans' bill which had the support of every major veterans' organization. the republican party is supposed to love the veterans. i got two votes and they brought forth an amendment for sanctions on iran. they said everybody knows this, we are going to do everything we can to stop legislation and then we're going to say what have these people accomplished? democrats control the senate, what have they done. >> how do you go to the capitol every day.
how do you wake up and commute from vermont and go to that capitol and talk to your colleagues and introduce bills and work on amendments and do all of the work of legislating when you know that's where it's headed, that's the conditions? >> let me tell you very honestly, it is emotionally very, very difficult and frustrating. we look out on the world. you were discussing the need to raise the minimum wage. everybody knows we have to do that. we can't do that. can't extend long term unemployment, come up with a jobs program. the shaheen bill was a good start. we have to go a lot further than that. we don't even have a republican party that acknowledges the science of climate change let alone addressing it. >> what do you think about scott brown's message to voters and image of himself as a bipartisan compromiser in the wake of this?
>> i think as you've indicated, it just undermines everything, how he defines himself. he's the great moderate. he's the great guy who brings people together. in this case he did everything that he could to prevent the congress from passing -- the senate from passing a modest bill. by the way, this legislation, as i understand it, was passed with very heavy votes in the house. so i think it undermines his entire credibility as being a moderate who wants to bring people together. >> do you think there will be any cost for this ultimately? in this case there's a microcosm of scott brown, will he pay a cost as this gets out. are there costs for this kind of thing? >> well, it really depends on how effective if the democrats are in going to grassroots america. this is my fear in terms of the coming election. the pundits tell us that 60% of the american people are not going to vote.
what that means is 70 or 80% of low income and working people who want to raise the minimum wage, they're not going to vote. what we have got to do is to figure out a way that we rally grassroots america, educate them about what republican obstructionism is about, educate them about how republicans work day and night for the big money interests and if we can motivate people, i think we'll do fine in the elect. >> senator bernie sanders, always a pleasure. a former member of chris christie's staff says the governor is lying about the george washington lane closures. that big story ahead. .
there are big decision 2014 races going on in the mountain west this year and tonight we want to catch you up on the race heating up. welcome to the idaho debates where governor clement leroy butch is trying to hold off a primary challenge from the right flank. senator russ follow cher is trying to run the governor out of town on account of getting too cozy with obamacare. the governor realizing the serious of the threat agreed to one debate before next tuesday's vote. it was held last night. it was engineered for that debate to feature some other, more colorful candidates. >> more brown, you've posted bigoted jokes on your website, securing women and jews and asians and polish people like me. >> and bikers and irishmen, too.
>> yeah, irishmen, too. how is that sort of disrespect for people going to allow you to govern? >> a substantial portion of my campaign is campaigning against political correctness. it's a bunch of -- oh, by the way, when you did your introduction, i wanted the fact that i was the president of the bombers motorcycle truck and i was a long haul truck driver. i wanted the low range stuff, not just the high stuff, engineer but like a full speed transmission to get it low and go all the way up to overdrive. >> harley brown bills himself as a stand-up comic and found his way onto the debate stage but the governor and his challenger. the moderator was asking him about his list of harleyisms, which he describes as political philosophy to entertain you.
actually they're just a bunch of racist and sexist jokes. he says it's all good. >> those harleyisms had a lot of warning on there, you might find this offensive. i hit everybody, jews, polish people, irish, italians, religious jokes and black jokes. by the way, my wife screened that and we took the real hard core zingers out so in case i catch any flack from people like you -- you're mild -- i can fire that back and attack my attackers. i don't like political correctness. can i say this? it sucks. it's bondage. i'm about as political correct as your pro verbal turd in a punch bowl. i'm going for the vote of the real people out there, not these bondage type people who don't
have a clue about picking up strangers at night and hauling them god knows where. >> wait, there's more. turns out harley brown wasn't the only nontraditional canada butch otter managed to cram onto the base. >> you said this gives you a platform to talk about your views on abortion. if lightning struck and you were elected governor, could you do the job? >> well, back when they told me that we couldn't home school, i prayed about it, i stood on my hind legs like a man and told them what i thought of them and the television would talk to me for 30 minutes or an hour, what would you do if they came out to take your kids. well, i'd shoot them. what else would you do? >> walt base is running as a republican on the platform >>
butch, i'd like to thank you for making it possible for me to be here tonight. he insisted that me and this other unnormal person could be here tonight. >> just an incredible feat of political skill by idaho's sitting governor. we ran the numbers and turns out that during last night's debate, russ full cher, the biggest threat, had by far the least talk time when compared to the jibberish coming from harley brown. that's why we've decided not to air even one more second of that nonsense. i'm sorry, i read that incorrectly. >> your closing remarks? >> this has been a great honor. let me finish that story. after god told me he was going to make me presidential, i got the presidential seal tattooed on my shoulder. i was living in fat jack's
cellar and one day this bishop from africa comes over and says i'm the profit of the most high god and i authenticate that god told you that. i said would you mind putting that in writing. he said sure. you have your choice, a cowboy, a curmudgeon, a biker or a normal guy. thank you very much. >> last night, idaho governor butch otter did a bit of political genius. . (laughs) come on in. i've been shaking these bounce bursts into my washer, they bring all the bounce freshness of the outdoors indoors, so... (laughs) i guess i just forgot i wasn't outside. here! see for yourself. (harp music) behold!
he was a matted messiley in a small cage. ng day. so that was our first task, was getting him to wellness. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. from contractors and doctors to dog sitters and landscapers, you can find it all on angie's list. we found riley at the shelter, and found everything he needed at angie's list. join today at angieslist.com >> more trouble for chris christie. one of his former top aides is effectively calling the governor a liar. back in december before the time for some traffic problems came out, before bridgegate erupted into a scandal, there was a weird mystery about why access lanes onto the george washington bridge had been closed.
in december, two months after, chris christie went before the cameras and said essentially, look, i got nothing. [ inaudible ] >> yeah, i have absolutely no reason to believe that, angie, and i've made it very clear to everybody on my senior staff that if anyone had any knowledge about this, that they needed to come forward to me and tell me about it. they've all assured me that they don't. oh, yeah, i've spoken to mr. stepyan, the person in charge of the campaign and he's assured me the same thing. >> any knowledge, they didn't have any. that guy he mentioned, bill stepyan, he used to be close to the governor. he had been expected to run his presidential campaign but then cambridge gate to effectively disown him.
>> if i cannot trust someone's judgment i cannot ask others to do so and i would not place him at the head of my political operation because of the lack of judgment that was shown in the e-mails that were revealed yesterday. >> stepyan invoked his fifth amendment rights and seemed to be playing the role of good soldier willing to fall on his sword but now he's suggesting chris christie was not telling the truth on december 13th. in a letter his lawyer said he advised governor christie on december 12th, one day before the press conference, that he did have prior knowledge. he's seeking a retraction of the claims. it's been alleged he falsely assured christie he had no prior knowledge of the lane closures. to quote the letter, to state as
the report does that mr. stepyan lied to mr. christie, a man who whom he was unshakeablely loyal is reprehensible. we reached out and he said there's no basis for any correction and added that our report stands as. joining me brian murphy, assistant professor of political history. this strikes me as a big deal for two reasons. one, stepyan has been a good soldier and is no longer inside the tent. and two, he's saying christie lied to everyone. >> that's right. christie had a conversation with them where they discussed this on the 12th and christie went out on the 13th and said nobody was involved on my staff in this. >> he says it's clear to everyone on my staff that if anyone had any knowledge they need to come forward and tell me. does that include stepyan.
stepyan is saying that's a straight up lie. >> that time line got more complicated because christie's press secretary testified that they had a conversation on the 5th of december where the spokesman told the governor, bill stepyan and bridget kelly might have a role in this and christie said apparently if we believe him, christie told drun yak, i've been wondering if bill is involved in this. >> there's afamous moment in his press conference when he said i was reading my ipad and that was the first time i heard of this. he gave a three-hour thing. he was out there for a long time. this is what rudy giuliani said about it. take a listen.
>> if for some reason it's not true, the man has put his political career completely at risk. if it turns out that there's some evidence that he knew about it, he's taken the complete risk that his political career is over. >> we don't have a smoking gun that he knew about it and lied in that press conference but we have increasing circumstantial evidence of person after person saying he has not been straight with the public and the press about when he learned. >> that date keeps moving further and further back on the calendar. and now he's saying things in december like, everybody is going to owe wildsteen and barone. you're going to owe people apologies for writing the stories that you are writing while he knows the true reason that these folks were asked to resign by him. he didn't resign because of some long plan. they were forced out. >> he's mocking people, he's saying i was moving the cones, while he's saying you're going to owe people apologies, he has been getting word internally that something is messed up
here. >> i always thought it was weird that he talked about the cones and said he had no knowledge because it sort of suggestions an operational knowledge of how this works. >> fraud yan give away. >> that's the problem with the long press conference. at some point you have to be careful about keeping that story straight. over three hours it just starts to fall apart. >> chris christie recently this week said my political future has nothing to do with bridgegate. >> as far as the impact on my political future, i think it will have none, because i didn't do anything. you've had all kinds of people looking at this for nearly four and a half months now and there hasn't been one suggestion that i knew anything about it. i am not the first chief executive. i see governor engler down here and president clinton back stage. i'm not the first chief executive that had someone on their staff do something that they disapproved had and had to fire them. i don't think it hurt anybody's career and it's not going to hurt mine.
>> i love that he's throwing engler and clinton. that the person that you want to associate. >> that's a great example. >> do you think it's true? >> no. politicians have to be brokers in hope so that's fine. but it seems -- i'm a historian, four and a half months doesn't seem that long to look into something, especially when you don't necessarily have the most cooperative witnesses. the people who have the real good stuff haven't talked because they have real good stuff. >> that's why this development is notable because if he starts talking and bridget kelly starts talking -- >> you have a bunch of people that are hostile. >> thank you. the nra wants you to meet this guy. >> we talk about guns the way we want, the stuff we dream about and kick around when we're at the range or just hanging out. >> the man is an urban gun enthusiast, the latest attempt by the nra to make themselves more appealing to more people. we'll talk about that next. those little things still get you.
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the nra would like you to know that they are not a bunch of militia obsessed bunkered down weird oh,s obsessing over blackhawks while they spin conspiracies about the atf. they are, to borrow a phrase from christine o'donnell, just like you. >> the gun world didn't come from nowhere. there's a heritage that would put most rappers to shame. there's no way you look at a photo of hemmingway hunting in africa without thinking there's a reason the most interesting man in the world is pro gun. >> hemmingway by the way killed himself with a gun. they have a cool new show on nra
freestyle tv in which they try to reach out to gun owners who aren't in the fold and put a face on itself to appeal to people who don't have jobs as insurance agents. this is what you get when they sit down with a fox news columnist. >> if i handed him a gun and he limp wristed it like he was picking up a spider, not cool. >> this is what you get when you take guns, a little bit of politics, pop culture -- >> perez hilton and u.s. weekly are talking about golf digest. >> not every gun owner wants to play commando. there are millions like my co-host, amy. >> i'm going to influence women in the gun world.
>> we'll talk about everything and politicize nothing. >> you step outside of that circle and tell me how to run my life, that's when we have issues. >> ladies and gentlemen, welcome to noir. >> the nra however is right to be concerned about its image. here the two key trends about gun ownership in america that you have to understand to understand everything. one of them is good news for them and that's the number of guns sold in america keeps going up. the bad news is the number of households with guns keeps going down which in 2012 was around a third of american house holtds, meaning that gun culture in america is driven by fewer and fewer people buying more guns. the heart of american gun culture is concentrated and can be dominated by a very ugly faction. a special report from mother jones on just what that looks like and someone who came face to face with that ugliness next.
>> not a bad grouping. happy mother's day. >> firearms instructor in florida decide to shoot a few holes in a banner for the group moms demand action for gun sense in america, just a glimpse of some of the ugly methods used by them to harass people, mostly women, calling for better regulations for gun owners, all of this exposed in a blockbuster piece today at mother jones. shannon, i'll begin with you. since you've gotten into this arena in public, what has your experience been? we did a report about a real second amendment guy, a gun store owner who got death threats and got people calling his phone and saying really ugly things to him when he said he was going to sell this one smart gun. i can only imagine what someone like you gets. >> it's daily, whether it's threats of violence, sexual violence, threats of death, not only to me but my family.
this is the story of many of our moms around the country. in my opinion, threatening the opposition is cowardly and unamerican. it's a way to circumvent democracy. that's why it's so important for responsible gun owners and other mothers to stand up and say we will not allow this fringe to become mainstream and make here policies. >> mark, we would playing some video and if we could run that again and if you could explain what we were seeing there because that was one of the most shocking parts of the story. who is shooting and what are they shooting at in this video? >> that was a firearms instructor in florida, a former police officer as well who made this video targeting moms. i think you're also showing the video of the mad minute which was a group in texas that was shooting a female mannequin. this is one of the groups this is pushing for open carrying in the state of texas.
they've been conducting these provocative demonstrations where they parade around in public with assault rifles. a number of those people were at a dallas restaurant last fall, a story that made national news where some members of shannon's organization were meeting and this is what they do on their spare time apparently is shoot up naked female mannequins. >> any group large enough, there's millions of gun owners in america, millions of members of the nra, people are going to do ugly stuff. i remember during occupy fox news would find allegations of sexual assault and say these people are all rapists. are you doing the same thing with gun rights activists? convince me this isn't just some small handful of people acting terribly. >> it's not the same at all, chris. this is happening all over the country in various places. the story i put automatic today on mother jones covers a number of scenarios, but it's really just the tip of the iceberg. i've heard many other stories about this happening in
colorado, north carolina, and i think it reflects something about the tactics of the gun lobby. it shows that there's a disturbing cost to the rhetoric and the language and the messaging of the nra's leadership and gun owners of america and other groups, constantly appealing to fear and paranoia and stirring up anger. there's a susceptible minority of gun owners who are listening and i think this is partly the result of that. >> shannon, when you talk about being targeted, your actual personal phone has been called, right, with threats? >> absolutely. you name it, twitter, facebook, e-mail, phone, letters to my home, people driving by, but the point i want to make -- >> stop there for a second. people driving by? >> absolutely. >> doing what? >> just looking at my house and what my address is and in general being intimidating. but mark was talking about the susceptible minority.
i want people to understand that they're being invited by, for example, senate senator craig estes in texas to testify in favor of open carry. a state representative here in indiana who is outraged that i testified against guns in schools has taken to facebook to bully me on our facebook page an his own personal representative page. that's why we need people to stand up and say this is not acceptable. this is not an okay way to act. we have a democracy in place, we have to follow it. you can't use the second amendment to threaten americans. >> america, you have a story in there that was really upsetting about a woman confined who a wheelchair who herself is a gun owner who was essentially spit on if i'm recalling this story correctly by someone who was mad at her for her advocacy on gun regulation? >> that's right. she was in indianapolis participating in a press conference with every town talking about why we need to
reform gun laws in the view of that group. on her way home in the airport there was footage of that press conference playing on the tv in the concourse and a man who saw it recognized her came up and sat in her face. it boggles the mind who would do things like that. but again, i think as we've been saying, this is a minority group of gun owners. it raises another interesting question, too, chris, which is where are the majority of gun owners in this country in this debate? why aren't they speaking out? most people who are gun owners are responsible, civil people. you don't see a whole lot of them talking about this stuff. i think they're starting to pay attention. there's been a little backlash starting to bubble up on conservative blogs and saying this is wrong and people can't be doing this. >> the kinds of people i think who are devoting their lives and energy to things like open carry is going to be a pretty self-selecting group of people, so what you're getting is a gun movement that's dominated by a very small, very hard core group of people with very fringe views
who can be very aggressive. we've seen this play out time and time again in gun clash after another in which you're not just getting arguments about policy. you're getting rank, pure intimidation. thank you both. that's all for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts now. >> good evening. happy thursday night. not too long ago the united states government was overthrown by truckers. do you remember that? it was the truckers' ride for constitution. they were going to ring the entire d.c. belt way with a corridor of rolling steel as they lined up thousands of trucks bumper to bumper and slowly circling the nation's capitol and bringing the u.s. government to its knees. having the government on its knees would be a convenient position from whice
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